from out of the ground 【待续】

Oeasy · 发表于 2017-5-18 11:37:08

本帖最后由 Oeasy 于 2017-5-19 14:23 编辑

[2017-05-19] from out of ... http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/n4uVvukxgCvNxx_7Ofl9uA

      [2017-03-13]《牛津高阶英汉双解词典》（第 8 版）里的 126 个介词 http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/MZ1CypLUoQCcl0rR0PUyYw
               - 注意 according to、ahead of、aside from、because of 等带有空格，但是整体被标注为介词。out of 在 CALD 中整体标注为介词 http://dictionary.cambridge.org/ ... e-simplified/out-of
      [2016-12-20] 不定冠词 a 还是介词？ https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/KMroTIq-fVrtVs-jQSVM0A
-
感谢楼下朋友的回复。重在学习。
-
有朋友让我分析下这样一个句子。
我也不是万能的，其实也没太想明白，这里抛砖引玉。

http://www.economist.com/news/le ... wer-engagement-ring

Meanwhile, laboratory-grown “synthetic” diamonds, long fit only for industrial use, are becoming good enough to compete with gems from out of the ground.

基本点：
- gems from out of the ground 肯定是正确的表达方式。不知道为啥，我联想起 I don't have nothing.

- out of 合起来看作一个介词，虽然 out 和 of 间有空格，http://dictionary.cambridge.org/ ... e-simplified/out-of
- from 也是一个介词
-  ground 常见的有两个意思，https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=ground
- 地面（the soild surface of the earth），above/below/under/on the ground
- 土壤（soil; earth），in the ground
gems （diamonds 钻石）和 ground 联系在一起，这里 ground 不太可能是“土壤”。

- 钻石是怎么形成的？http://www.guokr.com/question/391805/
- 既然钻石是个营销骗局，那黄金的价值是怎么体现的？其他的宝石，蓝宝石、红宝石、珍珠等是否有经济价值，能否保值？  https://www.zhihu.com/question/20847843

----

问题一，out of the ground 在这里是宾语？等等，介词短语做宾语？Are you kidding me? 印象中只有名词、代词或名词短语作宾语啊。

- [LGSWE]Longman Grammar of Spoken and Written English
:: from out of the ground 合起来算 prepositional phrase，而 out of the ground 这个 prepositional phrase 作为 complement 。

LGSWE 中，prepositional phrase = a preposition + a complement

这里的 complement 可以是：
- a noun phrase
- nominal clause
  - wh-clause
  - ing-clause
- an adverb
- another prepositional phrase

2.7.5 Prepositional phrases
4 T6 W9 I8 q* ]0 r: N# r ~Prepositional phrases consist of a preposition (2.4.5) and a complement, most typically in the form of a noun phrase.& v; p+ \% f& ?& r3 L# y7 @
……
: S" |# C7 |/ n+ f0 T& lAdditionally, the complement may be an adverb 6, 7, or another prepositional phrase 8:. t, }, ^+ x2 G! F; D
6 So you're sitting [in here] at the moment are you Stanley? (CONV)3 ^7 ~) o6 Q9 J6 U/ s
7 Allow yourself time for home thoughts [from abroad], (NEWS)
' ?- s6 {- i, B& C x0 d8 [From behind the wire fencing], a uniformed guard eyes us with binoculars, (NEWS)

当然，把介词短语当作宾语的，也不是没有这种说法。

- 《大学英语语法：讲座与测试（第五版）》第四讲 - 介词

三、介词的宾语  k$ F9 v% ?: j
介词的宾语不仅限于名词和代词，还可以是其他词类或句子等
% K: |7 C$ H* M2 a$ @（1）名词. @+ W% c+ f  t
（2）代词7 N% D! L+ Z! `! M- `; _/ n. Z
（3）形容词' s2 O: b5 L6 f6 i
（4）副词
% n  Z& @/ h9 q9 j( l（5）动名词2 e* |# g) C5 K: L
（6）不定式3 J- L) k4 \5 G3 D6 d& }/ V
（7）介词短语
9 |+ _" i" P2 S& f( ~. R1 a She often studies till after midnight. 他常常学习到下半夜。
  c1 h7 I1 j; h( {  T They came from across the river. 他们自河对岸来。  g2 y4 B& P; I$ H
She read till into the night. 她读书到深夜。
/ c" [* a% T2 _4 w- h The temperature dropped to over zero centigrade. 气温降到刚过零度。
- |& V) G. n4 U" B( G2 V He suddenly appeared from behind the door. 他突然从门后面出现了。  m3 B" ]& V7 c9 m  ~
（8）数词
/ r% X7 o& N! z8 [2 K' M3 e（9）疑问词+不定式
% y: p. |, w9 r# b（10）疑问词引导从句) T  |$ D# ^, H7 s* k) m: i
（11）that 引导的从句

书中另有大量例句，这里不复制、粘贴了。

问题二，下面 4 种说法是否正确，表达的是不是同一个意思？
- ① gems from out of the ground
- ② gems from the ground
- ③ gems out of the ground
- ④ gems from underground
- ……

那 ground 做“地面”、“地表”讲的话，② gems from the ground、③ gems out of the ground 这两种搭配就很奇怪的，宝石源于土壤？
④ gems from underground 同样有问题，毕竟宝石有的没埋那么深；哈哈，underground 还是地铁的意思。

---

from out of ... 在词典里也有若干例子（from out of town / state, from out or the bounds），但是词典里 from out of the ground 我只找到两处。

####Collins English Dictionary
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/come-up

**come up**0 W$ K: i  ~5 P
7. to appear from out of the ground : F" n1 {+ v" N8 n- f# o# y  o
   my beans have come up early this year

####COBUILD Advanced English Dictionary
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/disinter

**disinter**
" M" f& T- K3 \5 ^$ t8 e* j/ h5 AWhen a dead body is disinterred, it is dug up from out of the ground.

顺便，这里 up from out of 四个词，都可以是介词，四个介词连在一起了，颤抖吧！

《剑桥高阶英汉双解词典》 lay 条有一个释义， to produce eggs from out of the body 。

**lay** http://dictionary.cambridge.org/ ... nese-simplified/lay

(of an animal or bird) to produce eggs from out of the body& X* h8 W; N5 Q- I' K( w
产（卵）；产（蛋）

- out from or out of earth https://forum.wordreference.com/ ... t-of-earth.3239731/

待续

- From Out of the Shadows: Mexican Women in Twentieth-Century America https://www.amazon.com/dp/0195374770/
- From Out of Chaos: Dark Matter Heart: Book 2 (Dark Matter Heart Trilogy) (Volume 2) https://www.amazon.com/dp/1477435530/
-

brianleeeee · 发表于 2017-5-20 11:21:37

这个问题似乎没有那么复杂：
首先，介词分为“简单介词（from, in , on...）”“双词介词（according ro, because of, ahead of, instead of, out of...）”“多词介词（in case of, in charge of...）”
其次，“介词+宾语（名词、代词、动词-ing形式、从句……）”=介词短语
第三，英语中存在“双重介词结构”，即两个介词连用，后面的介词短语用作前面介词的宾语

fellboy · 发表于 2017-5-18 12:15:06

本帖最后由 fellboy 于 2017-5-18 12:24 编辑

对于列出来的 ④ gems from underground，很少有这样的用法。underground 作为名词没有表示“地下”这个含义。谷歌搜索 gems from underground，一般给出的是 underground gems ，也就是词典所说的 underground 作为形容词时候，只能作为前置定语。当然也出现了一个 gems from the underground（一张 CD 专辑名字）。

Oeasy · 发表于 2017-5-18 13:28:09

fellboy 发表于 2017-5-18 12:15, V0 V( a6 U" z$ P1 P
对于列出来的 ④ gems from underground，很少有这样的用法。underground 作为名词没有表示“地下”这个含 ...

然而，underground 其实可以做副词的 http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/underground

un‧der‧ground2 /ˌʌndəˈɡraʊnd $ -ər-/ adverb
7 K: @6 ]% \" {) `1 under the earth’s surface. r9 Y6 i7 H g c/ s
This animal spends most of its life underground.
+ r6 N7 z8 Z3 {7 e- M nuclear waste buried deep underground

（4）副词。例如：
+ U+ x6 l" K; S) l K: kShe came from afar. 她自远方来。! m/ o3 n% p; J( K
He shouted from below. 他从下面喊叫。9 o, y; J! u. M2 x6 e! }
We have trusted her till recently. 我们直到最近还一直相信她。6 a6 q3 m) A2 J% ~7 _
I can't see the tower clearly from here. 我从这里看不清楚那座塔。1 V) q: [# U* m; C2 X# D0 d! I: I# d y& C
They have never seen each other since five years ago. 他们五年来一直未见过面。( B+ E0 a- o# d" Z: ^! M
She received them coldly instead of warmly. 她接待他们不热情，很冷淡。

另外 from out of the ground 中的 the 也值得玩味。

######韦氏高阶英汉双解词典
>» She's from out of town. [=from a different town] 她是外地人。

######现代汉语词典(2002增补本)(汉英双语)
>**坑骗** kēngpiàn
用欺骗的手段使人受到损害 entrap; cheat:
有的小贩漫天要价,～外地游客。Some peddlers overpriced their goods and cheated travellers from out of the town.

评：这里多了个 the 。

参考微博：http://weibo.com/1587303135/F3lFiybfM

感慨一下，English is a crazy language. 真要这么死扣，我这里写的无数汉语句子，都是有毛病的的。

huala · 发表于 2017-5-18 14:50:19

这种组合其实不用太过纠结。

gems from out of the ground. 是精炼简约的表达，大致是 gems from those out of the ground.

如果要繁琐一点可以是 gems (that are) from those (are) out of the ground.

aidixiao · 发表于 2017-5-18 15:50:15

楼主标题的这句话是来自《经济学人》2月25日刊上的一篇文章.说一下我对这一句话的理解:这句话的主干部分是 laboratory-grown “synthetic” diamonds are becoming good enough .两个逗号之间的部分long fit only for industrial use是插入语,to compete with gems from out of the ground是不定式短语作状语修饰good,from out of the ground是复合介词短语作定语修饰前面的gems. 整句翻译如下:同时，实验室诞生的“合成”钻石，长期以来仅适于工业用途，正在变得足够好，能与来自地下的宝石竞争。

spearonsquare · 发表于 2017-5-18 15:50:28

本帖最后由 spearonsquare 于 2017-5-18 16:19 编辑

1）关于ground，人类开采活动，相对地球（地壳）而言，都属于浅层活动，所以用ground表示，应该没有大问题（当然，不太严谨）；前段时间就一个土地产权文章，作者甚至用surface表示“浅层”地表产权（包括地面之上和地表浅层矿物）。
2）from out of看成介词短语更合适，而out作为副词理解似乎更好，它们连在一起使用，更主要的是出于语义表达的结果，“从地下开采出来的...”。
CD中专门讲述了out的这种用法：

The use of out as a preposition is obsolete or poetic. A prepositional use is generally secured by subjoining of, from, or some other preposition to the adverb out. As a preposition, out is often pleonastically preceded by from, from out of being also used in place of from out.

从这段论述看，from out中的out，既可以看成介词，又可以看成副词，但是看成副词的情况比较多。
另外，from out的用法属于“冗余”或强调用法，而且from out of也经常用from out替代。

类似例子：
to produce eggs from out of the body
puts the ball into play from out of bounds
from out of nowhere he asks me to marry him.
the mad old lady from down the street
widely taught in American schools from around 1850

仅供老大参考。

per · 发表于 2017-5-19 11:55:38

本帖最后由 per 于 2017-5-19 11:58 编辑

spearonsquare 发表于 2017-5-18 15:505 y7 {7 c, K# m+ b9 |: O
CD中专门讲述了out的这种用法：" k  D( W1 v* O/ c6 N
9 e3 ]0 `7 ^% s" I7 U9 U, R
The use of out as a preposition is obsolete or poetic. A prepositional use is generally secured by subjoining of, from, or some other preposition to the adverb out. As a preposition, out is often pleonastically preceded by from, from out of being also used in place of from out.
, m  J) a# ]: M
( g6 k3 [" Z2 a3 ?' x) B4 }从这段论述看，from out中的out，既可以看成介词，又可以看成副词，但是看成副词的情况比较多。
. h6 S5 z% }- @/ F$ Y6 G; Q9 u- B/ A另外，from out的用法属于“冗余”或强调用法，而且from out of也经常用from out替代。
8 n1 O) G  o2 h3 B5 m6 R3 P...

楼上好像没看懂CD里的意思。

spearonsquare · 发表于 2017-5-19 14:15:19

本帖最后由 spearonsquare 于 2017-5-19 14:49 编辑

per 发表于 2017-5-19 11:55
6 r: ?! k7 d! v- Y2 F% W楼上好像没看懂CD里的意思。

谢谢答复，愿闻其详。
A prepositional use，这里并非指的是out作为介词的用法，而是其他合适介词的用法，所有后面才说副词out怎么怎么样？
至于out的位置，from out of中，前后都有介词，应该可以说明问题。
所以，这个out只是冗余性、加强语气的作用，没有它也可以.
不知道兄台是否说的这句？你看我理解的对不对？

per · 发表于 2017-5-19 15:10:21

As a preposition, out is often pleonastically preceded by from这句明明是说out作介词时的情况，怎么会是副词呢？

另，"冗余"是指“from"，而不是你说的”这个out只是冗余性、加强语气的作用”。

还有，你把“from out of being also used in place of from out.”理解为“而且from out of也经常用from out替代”也是不正确的，正好相反了。

spearonsquare · 发表于 2017-5-19 15:40:34

本帖最后由 spearonsquare 于 2017-5-19 16:31 编辑

谢谢。
前面我已经说过了，out既可以为介词，也可以为副词，我主要说副词的含义。
...而且from out of也经常用from out替代...是我表达错误。
冗余，可以理解为互相的。不过，非要注重从by理解，也没有问题，不影响总体用法的理解。

******
这里有篇文章专门讨论了英语利用介词短语或副词短语（具体称为什么短语，以短语的语法成分作用确定）突出强调空间和方向的语言特征：
另外，关于out的词性问题，Wikipedia上也有过专门讨论：
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AFrom_Out_of_the_Rain（这个我就不贴图了）。

关于利用particles强调方向和位置的论文连接：
http://webcache.googleuserconten ... p;ct=clnk&gl=us

贴图：

spearonsquare · 发表于 2017-5-19 20:01:47

在下面这个引文中，讨论者对out的词性以及构成的短语用法进行了激烈和详尽的讨论，感觉还是比较靠谱的。
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AFrom_Out_of_the_Rain

The best book I have for propositions is FT Wood's English Prepositional Idioms, published by Macmillan. It has 90 pages dealing with 'The Prepositions and Their Uses' and 480 pages dealing with 'Prepositional Idioms'. The most it can say on the question is "It is difficult to draw a line of demarcation between those constructions in which 'out of' has the force of a compound and those where 'out' functions as an adverb, with 'of' as a preposition introducing an adjunct to it." （麦克米伦这个词典看来很权威啊！）

What's happening here is that we are finding it difficult to draw that line. But if we draw the line in favor of adverb+preposition then we avoid a conflict between official sources and Wikipedia policy. I'm not lining up with the little-o folk, some of whom seem to be rather uncooperative, but I am pointing out that there doesn't have to be a conflict if you don't want it.

It's only 'out of' though that might be a compound preposition. Don't confuse things by suggesting that 'from out of' forms a compound preposition. Wood's book offers a note at the end of its article on 'from': "'From' may be used before an adverb phrase of time or place which itself begins with another preposition." It gives examples including "He took a box from under the counter." and "From just after the war until the present time...". Compound prepositions are numerous, but we don't posit a new one every time we encounter a construction like this.

****
Ok, I have to point out that you should take Wood's book with a pinch of salt. He obviously makes a mistake in saying that from precedes an adverb in "He took a box from under the counter." The adverb in this case is "from" itself, i.e. "took from", as "took under" doesn't make sense if "under" is the adverb. The simplest way to resolve this is to write the whole sentence in another form: "From out of the rain they came." This clearly indicates that "from out of" forms one preposition. "From the rain they came out", in which "out" is an adverb, only works if you omit "of". "Out of the rain they came from" is a little awkward.
****
In 'from the beginning' the rest of the phrase is a noun phrase, with 'beginning' as its head. This is typical, but it is not the only construction of a prepositional phrase. In 'from above' and 'from next-door' the rest of the phrase is an adverb—'above' or 'next-door'. In 'from under the table' and 'from across the street' the rest of the prepositional phrase is an adverbial phrase. It is an adverbial phrase because it answers the same question that 'above' and 'next-door' answer: 'where'; it is an adverb phrase of place, in Wood's terms. What we have in these examples is not compound prepositions, but nested prepositional phrases. (In all cases the 'from' phrase is answering the same question: Where did it come from? From the beginning. From above. From under the table. From across the street. The question wouldn't be *'where did it come from under?' or *'from across where did it come'. Or in our case *'where did it come from out of'. However, with a compound preposition the question is 'what is it made out of' or 'what is it lying in front of'.)

aidixiao · 发表于 2017-5-20 11:57:34

介词+介词短语的结构在英语文章中还是很多的,附上<新编英语阅读手册>中几个例句:

Babybear1 · 发表于 2017-5-20 12:12:18

说到点，我也记了一些，比如from behind a tree/from under/above the desk, from这个词语法书中讲经常喜欢跟一些介词短语组合起来用。

mtywhh321 · 发表于 2017-6-2 18:37:36

本帖最后由 mtywhh321 于 2017-6-2 18:43 编辑

可能习惯用法，确实觉得很绕口
【pull up from out of ground】 (托福听力)不管哪种方式，当树倒下的时候根从土里连根拔起地翻出来...

【dig up from out of ground】从土壤里挖出来
“disinter” 词条柯林斯高阶
[VERB 动词] 挖掘出(尸体)；When a dead body is disinterred, it is dug up from out of the ground. [be V-ed] [usu passive]

【bring (esp a boat or ship) on shore from out of the water 】（尤指船只）从水中推或拖至岸上
牛津高阶4 "beach" 词条 (但是牛津8 里，变成了 to come or bring sth out of the water and onto the beach, from给去掉了)

感觉像是 bring sth from and then out of water/soil, 从水/土里拖/翻出来，from 可以就不要。说介宾结构做表语、状语我能理解，说做宾语感觉理解不了

Budha · 发表于 2017-6-3 14:36:12

up from out of ,up应该是副词，所以我认为只有三个介词

yhemusa · 发表于 2017-6-3 20:55:33

此贴好，引发讨论。

yhemusa · 发表于 2017-6-4 18:56:12

贴主的这个短语是不是出自这篇文章？ A girl’s new best friend http://www.toutiao.com/i6422991579501298177/

Greater equality for women might seem to render male-courtship displays redundant. But mating preferences evolved over millennia and will not change quickly. If diamonds were to cease being a way to signal a man’s marriageability, what might take their place?

尽管给予女性伴侣更多平等或许可以弥补男性在求爱时自身条件的不足，而千禧一代的择偶条件在不断改变，但一时半会也不至于完全不同。倘若钻石不再是男人对爱情忠贞的见证，那又有什么可以替代它呢？

---------------------------- 这两句话的译文不好，对原文的理解有问题。----原文意为：女性获得的平等权利似乎让男性的求爱炫耀显得多余了（意指女性的经济政治权利、能力提高，不再依赖于配偶给予的生活保障，因此你就不必炫耀你的财富了），但是（女性的）求偶偏好是数千年来逐渐形成的，不会很快改变。如果钻石作为（男性的）适婚性的符号已经过时了，那么还有什么能够替代它呢？

（作者字里行间的意思是，钻石仍然是女性的偏爱，无可取代。--- 寡人不敢苟同，一块小得可怜的破石头有那么重要吗？）。

spearonsquare · 发表于 2017-6-5 21:33:56

本帖最后由 spearonsquare 于 2017-6-6 13:20 编辑

翻译将millennia理解成千禧一代，只能说明翻译时太不负责任了。
另外，那个弥补不足，完全没有理解原文的意思。这样的译文也敢拿出来进行”双语阅读“，真是勇气可嘉。
最后，display套用最近的流行语，似可翻译为“表白”。

yhemusa · 发表于 2017-6-6 16:23:42

In China skewed sex ratios mean that a prospective bridegroom must own an apartment and shower his future in-laws with cash. But a glittering stone goes to the woman, not her family.

在中国，扭曲的性别比意味着，一个准新郎必须向他未来的姻亲大把撒钱。但是那颗闪闪发光的小石头却只献给他的未婚妻，而不是他的家人。

------- 讨论一下，英文的sex ratios mean。。。，私以为也有有点问题。性别比可以指一个社会中总体的男女性别比，也可以指不同年龄段等等各种范围内的性别比，但是这里显然是指适婚人口的性别比（the sex ratio of the marrigeable population）, 与幼儿和耄耋是无关的。因此，应该说the sex ratio means... ratio不该用复数。

------ 提出讨论，如有错误，欢迎抛砖。

SAP · 发表于 2017-6-6 18:40:44

LGSWE毫无疑问是权威的。to compete with gems [from out of ground]，gems后面应该是状语吧。我理解也就是gems的定语。反正语言就是先有习惯用法，然后语法研究去解释。大家用着没毛病就会成立。

spearonsquare · 发表于 2017-6-6 20:28:25

yhemusa 发表于 2017-6-6 16:239 z4 B0 ?& K& m
In China skewed sex ratios mean that a prospective bridegroom must own an apartment and shower his ...

共同学习一下：
skewed理解成“失衡”“失调”较好；
Ratios可能指不同地域的性别比（也有可能指年龄段，例如，大城市30-35岁结婚的不少，农村可能20-25结婚的占主体）。

yhemusa · 发表于 2017-6-8 19:29:43

http://www.toutiao.com/i6422991579501298177/
这里的翻译有点太过随意了，除了上面说的错误，还有别的。

But these can impress one woman as easily as another, or several simultaneously. He must show commitment—a need not unique to courtship. Salvadoran gangsters get extravagant tattoos; 但一个男人必须对爱情作出承诺，这在爱情里很常见。

对 a need not unique to courtship 的理解有问题，原文意为：（对忠诚的需要/要求）并不是在求爱当中独有的（意即很多事情中都要求要忠诚）。原文下面还举了几个例子来说明。说明译者没有仔细看，所以说是草率了。

Many millennial women seek a mate who is creative, charitable and earns enough not to live with his parents. The millionaire founder of a startup that makes an app to teach yoga to orphans would be ideal.
千禧一代的女性都希望自己的另一半有创造力，有善心，可以自力更生，不啃老。身价百万的创业者或许是她们的理想对象。

这里的翻译有漏翻的内容，原文的前后两句是衔接很紧密的，译文没有反映出来。：许多千禧一代的女性..... 如果一位百万富翁创办一家企业，开发一种向孤儿教授瑜伽的软件，那么这样的百万富翁可能是最理想的了。（有钱，有创造力，有爱心，与上文衔接）。

Whatever ultimately replaces diamonds, it will surely be digital, not worn on a digit.
最终不管是什么取代钻石这种定情信物，都不会是一节小手指，而肯定是数字科技的产物。

原文意为“最终不管是什么取代钻石这种定情信物，都不会是戴在手指上的东西，而肯定是数字科技产品。”

yhemusa · 发表于 2017-8-20 16:26:54

spearonsquare 发表于 2017-6-6 20:28
1 Q: Q8 V4 g' Y共同学习一下：$ ]1 R3 ^4 S6 j# z" m* J% k
skewed理解成“失衡”“失调”较好；: k ~- l9 A5 d
Ratios可能指不同地域的性别比（也有可能指年龄段 ...

你的说法有道理。1） skewed sex ratios ... 译为“扭曲的性别比”是个不常用的搭配，是个临时性的用法我开始的时候也是用“失衡”这个词，但是又觉得失掉了一些味儿。作者为什么不说unbalanced ratio(s), 也不用比skew常用得多的distort，而要用不常用（但科学上常用）的skew这个词呢？就是为了求“酷”。好吧，既然你都酷了，我也酷一把：来个扭曲吧（扭曲也是skew在科学上对应的词语）。【想起刚看到的一个讨论，a load of 表示数量，是常用的口语，表示很多，load前面不加修饰性的词，big load 稍显冗余但还可接受，因此看到 a tale load of japanese 这个不常见的搭配，外语者就感到比较困惑，提出来讨论】。

2）关于ratio- ratios的问题，我问过英语者，他们也说可能是指不同年龄段的男女比例等，但不能肯定。我说不应该是指“适婚”的男女比例吗？他们说，如果这样，那么不应该用复数。反正这个用法至少可以说是意义不明确、不太好吧。

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