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[闲聊吐槽] 从今日NYT的一个句子引出的关于人称代词的一个疑问

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发表于 2016-9-13 00:26:34 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
今日NYT关于Tianjin mayor落马的报道(注意讨论的是语言不是内容,请勿自作多情):The inquiry into Mr. Huang “fully demonstrates that anyone who violates party discipline and state laws will be sternly dealt with, no matter who it is, no matter what post,” the editorial said. 这个it is 应该是性别不确定的时候用的,我的问题是能否用he或he or she?有关这种性别不清楚的人(注意是人,不是动物或其他物体)要使用人称代词的时候权威的语法规定是?我查了章振邦的新编高级英语语法,其中一点提到的是“不清楚人影(他强调了人影)所以我不敢确定像NYT这个句子不是人影的情况”时用it,当确定了性别后就使用相应的人称代词he或者she?由于另外的2本语法书被我放到办公室了,加之语法书不多,请有了解的给出较为权威的语法书相关内容,谢谢。

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发表于 2016-9-14 08:06:51 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 vivian2007 于 2016-9-14 08:26 编辑
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这个是小学英语的语法没学好。对人进行提问一律用it, 不论是谁。在法语中,也是一样的。Qui est-ce; Y) a. M- H, B: t4 T' t2 _1 K% l8 ]5 Z: Y
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温馨提示:千万不能使用he or she, 这不是逻辑问题,而是英语里就让你这样使用,而不是让你自己去瞎用,可懂?) _* K# S* e7 \2 s

  z$ g, z9 l! f7 r. a0 T! T9 t涉及到谁,一定是使用第三人称的单数 is, est ( est 也是动词 être(是)的直陈式现在时第三人称单数变位。),右面的代词可不止he she 还可以是them 、it(动物),不论是谁,是包含任何单复数人的!
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- C& ~1 Q( w3 v* O# \3 I. ]( N0 p/ i5 bit是万能代词,语法规定,涉及到谁,一定是使用第三人称的单数 is, est ,后面有且只有一个词是正确的,it代表所有不确定的单复数。
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    发表于 2016-9-13 01:05:40 | 显示全部楼层
    本帖最后由 jazzmood 于 2016-9-13 01:12 编辑
    $ H1 |( _8 J' c1 l# V  N
    % j3 O8 b6 g5 [9 Q! \% N4 D: y手头有限的土制语料库显示:
    " h( E) b# D) Y1 @, T9 @& pNYT 检索结果最多;20次 【嗯,有资料重复了,重复部分很少】
    / L  w4 _! t: B  N时代杂志 只有:2次:2 Q  s5 D  p0 b6 {+ @2 M
    economist 等: 0! o/ y4 z: q) t8 [3 I
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    感觉 是 NYT 专用的词语似的。
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    语法俺是弱项,从语料下手,自己慢慢总结?
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    2 _5 ?5 L' T4 g时代杂志:7 f+ [. F& {" O1 F+ R
    1、Others doubt that; they think ; Yeltsin's successor, no matter who it is, will have to deal pragmatically with the West.. F# m8 j5 B, X
    2、"My recollection is it was indicated to us that the President is dead, the hospital has to perform certain functions, and the law must be met, no matter who it is, at this moment.* [& Y* U6 H8 A( G

    / |* {# b# _/ uNYT:
    . |- Y; [9 _4 k1、 ''I think it can be worked out,'' Armstead said. ''You're not dealing with a guy that's a selfish guy. You're dealing with a guy that's been taught to respect his elders, no matter who it is.
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    2、 ''This time, no matter who it is, I can't let him in the end zone,'' he recalled thinking. ''We got a chance to win this game. Get him on the ground.''
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    , h3 W, w9 M/ P- @3、 Ms. McBride was not concerned. ''I wouldn't worry at all about his table manners,'' she said, adding, ''The president, frankly, is quite comfortable in every setting, no matter who it is.'') F4 _: s/ U: r( r

    4 N+ x( R7 _1 K( A& G! [4、  ''He tried to teach me to do things that I wouldn't normally do when I was a young kid,'' Ariza said. ''Such as play hard, and no matter who it is that you're guarding or playing against, just go at him.''
    7 |9 l# g* R2 J: I( g' S/ D. z4 U; `* ~$ M
    5、Though Mayor Bloomberg criticized the Cablevision presentation as a ''publicity stunt,'' he said yesterday that the city would work with the winning developer, no matter who it is.$ N  v! B+ F0 e1 T

    1 e; c# G& e8 k, @6、 ''He knows this game,'' guard Joe Andruzzi said of Scarnecchia. ''He knows his players. He gets everybody ready, no matter who it is.''1 [. `$ ?8 q( B

    : b$ O# G: o$ E9 w7、  ''You have to send a message across, no matter who it is,'' he said. ''Otherwise, we're not going to learn.''" u$ U9 L  }. o6 u4 f

    6 O/ @: Y; m) C! N" A2 Z8、''He doesn't want anybody to return the ball, no matter who it is,'' said Danny Kight, one of the kickers in Jets' camp. ''Even if it's your mom back there, don't let her return the ball.''* Y* ?( k  T( z: }! _/ a! f
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    9、No matter who it is, he may or may not be as productive as Coles was in helping Pennington and the Jets qualify for the playoffs.
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    0 l" v1 a" C+ L7 i4 C10、How difficult will it be for Venus to know that the best tennis player in her family is trying to win four Grand Slam titles in a row Saturday? ''On the court I'm a competitor,'' Venus said. ''No matter who it is, I hate to lose.

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    发表于 2016-9-13 03:46:38 | 显示全部楼层

    1 [1 \; n6 q( b1 g( f美语查 Merriam-Webster Learner's Dictionary, it 条 http://www.learnersdictionary.com/definition/it8 x& e" r3 k% d2 X; X4 H
    第一个义项下就提到
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    — used to refer to a living thing whose sex is unknown or is being ignored
    4 B& u- n9 O- Y( pI don't know who it is.
    4 z$ k9 {/ {7 Z“Who is it?” “It's only me.”
    6 N% p: N& c( z7 w0 `There is a rosebush near the fence, and it is now blooming.1 d4 u9 e7 u3 V! [# @& T* e; M
    A fly landed on the table and I swatted it., S1 j1 T1 H4 p
    He heard the baby crying and brought it some milk.

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    查 he 条:http://www.learnersdictionary.com/definition/he- @+ g4 O, M* b- X! v
    This use of he was common in the past but is now often avoided because it is considered sexist.
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    虽然楼主的语境下,不是什么好事儿。。。, r/ b1 I9 `* p
    http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/he_19 R7 G- b2 j4 Q0 I
    In written English, he is sometimes used to refer to a person without saying whether that person is a man or a woman. Some people dislike this use and prefer to use 'he or she' or 'they'.

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    至于为啥不用 he or she ,下图有说明,来自[LGSWE]Longman Grammar of Spoken and Written English 。1 O% X1 w. ?5 ?* C% p) S" T
           
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    点评

    跟词义词法没有半毛钱关系,这是小学英语额,不论是谁,不特指一律使用it.  发表于 2016-9-14 08:09

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     楼主| 发表于 2016-9-13 10:41:31 | 显示全部楼层
    O大对词典的利用和查询功力好生了得,获益匪浅。这个it的用法并不常见,但是比较有用。联系上面的he建议避免使用,以免落得个sexist之嫌,说点题外话,感觉现在西方的political correctness已经走火入魔了,我唯一认为Trump值得赞颂的一点就是他敢于反对这个political correctness。

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    发表于 2016-9-13 10:55:53 | 显示全部楼层
    本帖最后由 allisq 于 2016-9-13 15:02 编辑
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    it是针对该市长以外的各色人等说的,用it较为简洁。新闻语言有一个原则,就是简洁。8 [) O; v  e: x7 B, G( p: s) W* Q6 ?
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    既然是各色人等,就是泛指,即使知道是哪一群比较明确的人,泛指用it is 或 they are应该都没有问题。

    点评

    我的问题的核心是个grammar issue,而你说言是个style issue。  发表于 2016-9-13 11:23
    有一点点道理,但你说的和我想问的不是一个问题,谢谢  发表于 2016-9-13 11:22
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